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Post by veela on Oct 16, 2003 15:15:27 GMT -5
thinking about how tori can leave her lyrics so open to interpretation i was wondering what "pancake" means to each of you. i don't care (well, i care but not here) about what you think she intended it to be about just what it is to you.
to me, it's about a relationship where the other person has all the power and makes all the decisions and has made mistakes and ruined what could have been a good thing and now the girl just can't take it anymore.
"i believe in defending what we once stood for" to me says that i think we used to have something good and we were a pair and even though it's changed i'm willing to fight to be that way again
"you give me yours i'll give you mine cause i can look your god right in the eye" makes me think that this other person was somehow unfaithful and can no longer look her "god" in the eye because of the lie but she was true so she can still look his in the eye and he "used to" look her god in the eye because he used to be true
"you could have spared her, oh but no, messiah's need people dying in their name"
i love this line. he didn't have to hurt her the way he did. reminds me of a friend of mine who thinks so much of himself (messiah-wannabe ha ha) and used to always hurt girls and not care and i once got so mad at him and quoted this to him cause it was really unnecessary some of the things he did
"you say 'i ordered you a pancake'"
this line just sums it all up. he made the decision for her and as small as it seems it affects her. grrrrr... it makes me mad...lol.
that's just a little of my feeling on a few of the lines.
so, anyone else have a different view on this song?
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Post by BlackDove on Oct 16, 2003 15:51:37 GMT -5
I don't really have time to post all of my thoughts on this, but I find this song fascinating -- great topic.
Actually, I'm a little afraid to post my thoughts -- to me, this song is everything I feel about organized religion, which isn't very complimentary, in all honesty.
Ah, well, I'll be back later to see if I can find a way to post my thoughts on this song without pissing anybody off.
Later, kids. xoxo
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Post by Hellfire on Oct 16, 2003 17:32:11 GMT -5
Gosh, I'm so simplistic... To me the "I ordered you a pancake" is exactly the literal meaning... She's in a diner somewhere discussing some life-changing, psychologically vital matter (isn't she always?) with someone and, well, she ordered him a pancake. Actually, he ordered her a pancake. It's sorta like a stream of consciousness moment. Something so unimportant all of a sudden becomes the central part of a thought that will disappear in a matter of seconds. Like, she hit him with some kind of revelation, some sort of undisclosed truth that was so very important and she expects a big reaction from the other person, and all this person says is "I ordered you a pancake", that's why she says "you used to look my God right in the eye", God here standing for "truth", perhaps. After all, most religions claim that God is the universal truth, is it not? Just my two cents.
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Post by Koalapupu on Oct 17, 2003 7:10:29 GMT -5
Thanks for your thoughts! I think I posted somewhere asking people to tell their opinions on this song... I'm not sure.
I like the song a lot, and I'm waiting for BlackDove's thoughts on it cos I'm sure I'll lean to that way too at least partly when it comes to this song.
But the thing I never got was the last line. Pancake?? Tori, what? What's up with this pancake you mention only once and it's the title... Must be of some importance but I can't get to it.
So now as I read Veela's and Hellfire's interpretations it seems more clear to me. Both of them make so much sense to me! Thanks guys.
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Post by yexx on Oct 17, 2003 8:09:32 GMT -5
When I first heard it ,my immediate thought was that this song was Tori telling Osama B. what she thinks of him.
The word pancake was used alot on the dutch television at the time of the twin tower attack; describing how exactly the towers fell.
All the floors on top of each other.
Like pancakes.
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Post by yexx on Oct 17, 2003 8:10:45 GMT -5
OOOO.......I don't know how that smiley got there...I'm really sorry.....!!!!!!
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Post by ♥Mary♥ on Oct 17, 2003 9:03:42 GMT -5
OOOO.......I don't know how that smiley got there...I'm really sorry.....!!!!!! I fixed it for you, no problem. |
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Post by veela on Oct 17, 2003 9:20:19 GMT -5
those are some interesting thoughts, thanks guys!
i know this song is about religion, i just thought it was interesting because before i knew that, it had no trace of a religious meaning to me (and this from a girl who grew up in a very catholic family and went to catholic school straight through high school). i just thought it would be very interesting to see what it means to others.
so keep the interpretations coming!
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Post by BlackDove on Oct 17, 2003 14:21:23 GMT -5
Alrighty, I'm back to see if I can post some semi-coherent thoughts, seeing as how someone wants to hear them. LOL. Firstly -- Yexx, that is a very interesting point on the pancake, and I will definitely look at that line a bit differently from now on. My thoughts on the meaning are a bit divided. I definitely see it much the way Veela described it -- that "he" (or possibly "they" as in a group as a whole) is trying to make decisions for her. Now, a part of me thinks it's interesting (and this will make no sense, but I don't give a shit, lol!) that she chose a pancake, because it is flat, and thin -- thin like the lies and deceit he is trying to "feed" her. Also, maybe it's just me, but as much as I love pancakes -- they seem to give you this illusion of making you feel full for a little while, but they don't last and a short time later, you're starving again. That, to me (and we all know my logic isn't the best around. hahaha), ties in with the whole concept of being force-fed religion -- even if you buy into what they are forcing upon you, a short time later, you realize that it was not as filling/fulfilling as it seemed at first. Ummm, okay, that was fairly incoherent, and if anyone can figure out wtf I am trying to say, I'll give you a cookie. lol Another part of me wonders if Tori just chose "pancake" because it was a half-rhyme with "name". Maybe "pancake" could've just as easily been "sandwich" or "bowl of chili". You know? I absolutely love this song. "Seems like you and your tribe decided you'd rewrite the law" I know far too many who have thought that they were able to do just that -- rewrite the law. "Segregate the mind from body, from soul" This, to me, is what I feel the church I went to when I was young tried to do. "You give me yours, I'll give you mine, 'cause I can look your God right in the eye" Seems to speak for itself -- she can look the God he believes in right in the eye, b/c she knows that she has remained true to what's right and what she believes in. She knows that he can't look her God in the eye b/c of his moral, um, decay, I guess. To me, it's all about the hypocrisy and narrow-mindedness that makes up what I have seen of organized religion. That's not quite the right wording, but hopefully you all get the point (Gimme a break, I've been writing, editing and collecting poems and stories all morning. My mind is not what it normally is.) "You used to look my God right in the eye" Again, I think it speaks for itself. This, to me, tells me that he was once decent, and honest, but has now turned his back on who he used to be, and chosen another path...How he no longer upholds the beliefs he once did. "I believe in defending what we once stood for" Speaks for itself...I think she's telling him that she knows what she stands for and will defend it, whether he chooses to or not. "Seems in vogue to be a closet mysogynist homophobe" Honestly, going to church as a child and a teenager, this is exactly what I felt they were trying to teach me to be. I could go on, but you get the point... And on the next epsiode of "Say What, Ms. Amos?", we have Lynn, aka BlackDove, who knows nothing of brevity or making sense. Stay tuned!  xoxo |
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Post by veela on Oct 17, 2003 14:29:35 GMT -5
thanks blackdove, very insightful. and i can definitely see what you're saying and know what you mean about the organized religion. now where's my cookie? lol.
thank you for sharing.
i think that line about why she chose a pancake and how you feel about them is interesting but also hilarious. did you ever hear of a comedian named Mitch Hedberg? he's my favorite and absolutely hysterical. he has this line -
"when you're a comedian, you have to start of the show strong and end it strong. you can't be like pancakes, all good in the beginning and by the end you're fuckin sick of em"
LOL
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Post by BlackDove on Oct 17, 2003 14:38:55 GMT -5
thanks blackdove, very insightful. and i can definitely see what you're saying and know what you mean about the organized religion. now where's my cookie? lol. thank you for sharing. i think that line about why she chose a pancake and how you feel about them is interesting but also hilarious. did you ever hear of a comedian named Mitch Hedberg? he's my favorite and absolutely hysterical. he has this line - "when you're a comedian, you have to start of the show strong and end it strong. you can't be like pancakes, all good in the beginning and by the end you're fuckin sick of em" LOL LOL! I've never heard of him, but he now has the whole of my heart and I'm going to have to check him out. I'm glad I make sense to someone -- either miracles do happen, or you're as crazy as I am and we should talk more. Um, I seem to be out of cookies, But will a punkin work? --->  OR, I could order you a pancake... OMG, now I'm being stupid. I'd better go get some caffeine and jump-start my brain. It doesn't seem to be working correctly. |
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Post by veela on Oct 17, 2003 14:46:26 GMT -5
pumpkin is great! i'll make some pumpkin pie...
i think i might be as crazy as you are! lol.
i'm going to look for a site i found once that had all these mitch hedberg jokes. he's so so so funny. most of it is in his delivery though so reading them doesn't get across nearly how funny he even is.
here's another:
"i like escalators because they can't break. they can only become stairs. you'll never see a sign - escalator, temporarily out of order. just - escalator, temporarily stairs. sorry for the convenience"
and...
"on a traffic light, green meets go, yellow means slow down and red means stop. but on a banana, it's just the opposite. green means wait a little while, yellow means go and red means 'where the fuck did you get that banana?'"
AH! I love him.
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Post by veela on Oct 17, 2003 14:56:49 GMT -5
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Post by ♥Mary♥ on Oct 17, 2003 15:40:44 GMT -5
ROFLMAO! veela, those Mitch jokes are too much!  |
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Post by ♥Mary♥ on Oct 17, 2003 15:41:41 GMT -5
I have no idea what his delivery's like, but his style of humor reminds me of Steven Wright....he totally cracks me up!
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Post by ♥Mary♥ on Oct 17, 2003 15:42:22 GMT -5
I got in an argument with a girlfriend inside of a tent. That's a bad place for an argument, because then I tried to walk out, and had to slam the flap. How are you supposed to express your anger in this situation? Zip it up real quick?
^ ok, that made me totally lmao!
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Post by ♥Jana♥ on Oct 17, 2003 15:54:33 GMT -5
I got in an argument with a girlfriend inside of a tent. That's a bad place for an argument, because then I tried to walk out, and had to slam the flap. How are you supposed to express your anger in this situation? Zip it up real quick? ^ ok, that made me totally lmao! omg... i am a total door slammer, that cracks me up! |
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Post by veela on Oct 17, 2003 15:56:59 GMT -5
isn't he great?? funny you should mention steven wright because he's always compared to him. let me think of a couple that aren't on there...
I got to write these jokes. So, I sit at the hotel at night and I think of something that's funny. Or, If the pen is too far away, I have to convince myself that what I thought of wasn't funny.
You know that Pepperidge Farm bread, that stuff is fancy. That stuff is wrapped twice. You open it, and then still ain't open. That's why I don't buy it, I don't need another step between me and toast.
This product that was on TV was available for four easy payments of $19.95. I would like a product that was available for three easy payments and one complicated payment. We can't tell you which payment it is, but one of these payments is going to hard.
You know when they have a fishing show on TV? They catch the fish and then let it go. They don't want to eat the fish, they just want to make it late for something.
I would imagine if you could understand Morse Code, a tap dancer would drive you crazy.
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Post by ♥Mary♥ on Oct 17, 2003 15:59:18 GMT -5
isn't he great?? funny you should mention steven wright because he's always compared to him. let me think of a couple that aren't on there... I got to write these jokes. So, I sit at the hotel at night and I think of something that's funny. Or, If the pen is too far away, I have to convince myself that what I thought of wasn't funny. You know that Pepperidge Farm bread, that stuff is fancy. That stuff is wrapped twice. You open it, and then still ain't open. That's why I don't buy it, I don't need another step between me and toast. This product that was on TV was available for four easy payments of $19.95. I would like a product that was available for three easy payments and one complicated payment. We can't tell you which payment it is, but one of these payments is going to hard. You know when they have a fishing show on TV? They catch the fish and then let it go. They don't want to eat the fish, they just want to make it late for something. I would imagine if you could understand Morse Code, a tap dancer would drive you crazy. ROFLMAO!!!! veela, I simply couldn't keep the humor here where it might not be seen by so many people...so I started a thread with the link in the LOUNGE. Go check it out! |
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Post by veela on Oct 17, 2003 16:00:01 GMT -5
NICE
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