Tori's connections to Mary

[talulad]

Hmm. Have you ever noticed how often Mary comes up in Tori's songs? I don't have a list because I'm lazy but take a gander at (haha gander's a funny word) www.hereinmyhead.com/collect/lyrics.html and search for Mary. Or Marianne (which I think might be related... in Tori's world at least)

There is so much to talk about here. First of all... there's more than one Mary in the Bible, obviously. Like Mary the Mother vs. Mary Magdalene. And which one is Tori obsessed with? Well we know she's all about Mary Magdalene in some of her songs but who really knows what she's talking about, could be both, could depend on the song... What do you think?

And also, why is she so focused on Mary as a Biblical figure? I think it's because, in typical Tori fashion, she needs to girlify things, and focusing on the major female presences in the Bible and looking at the Bible through their eyes (similar to the SLG concept of singing men's songs through the eyes of the women in them) really helps Tori out, gives her a place to start from, a way to understand religion a bit more.

Does anyone even think there is a connection between Mary and Marianne or am I just being weird? I really don't know. But it's Tori, so I figure... yeah. Weirdness abounds.

Also, if anyone wants to offer up specific interpretations of Mary connections in songs... I don't have any at the moment, but I'm sure I'll come back later with some, or try to.

The list I have for Mary references so far is:
-Mary (duh)
-Another Girl's Paradise
-Mrs. Jesus
-Let It Be (maybe she covered it for a reason...?)
-Professional Widow (This Mary is a bit more obviously the Mother one...)
-Talula
-Muhammed My Friend (Not a direct mention of her name, but read www.hereinmyhead.com/collect/bfp/bfp9.html)
-Past the Mission (again, read www.hereinmyhead.com/collect/under/utp4.html)
-Atilla the Honey (read www.hereinmyhead.com/collect/beesides/atilla.html... it's quite hilarious actually)

And for Marianne:
-Marianne (again, duh duh duh)
-Sister Janet

Ok I thought there were more Marianne references but maybe I'm just insane. But the Mary part definitely has something to it, don't you think?

[talulad]

And yes, that other Mary, the one we all know and love in the current time and space, is required to respond to this at some point. If only because I can totally see her seeing the topic and thinking "Tori's connections to me?!"

[Ame]

well, I always thought that Marianne is some kind of development of Mary. In polish there quite a lot of names that come from Mary and even don't sound alike:
Marysia
Mariola
Majka
or even Rysia
I don't know if in english is the same.

Tori always have reference about what haven't been said in Church:
"I wanted to know why the blueprint of the [Mary] Magdalene was not passed down..what was passed down was the whore that wiped Jesus' feet. We skipped the whole phase of the woman - having sexual desire, wisdom, passion. Being an equal to Jesus..."
(thanks talulad for the links )

[♥Mary♥]

LOL, J.

When we saw Tori at our Good Friday concert last April (bexface was there, too) we paid attention to the "Mary" songs... many of them were part of the setlist that night.

I've never seen Mary and Marianne as being similar in a Tori-context, though.
I get the impression that Mary and Marianne are opposites, in fact... at least in the ways that Tori weaves them through her songs. But that's just me.

Ame there are MANY variations of Mary in English names, too.

[♣Miranda♣]

Tori says Marianne and Mary M. are connected. Lemme go find the quote...

[♣Miranda♣]

Here it is:

Interview from B-Side magazine, May/June 1996

"Yeah. And she is tired of it. And part of you has to die, and in 'Marianne,' it's the whole Mary Magdalene reference, a young girl who I knew that died. There's the whole idea of that part of woman that has been dormant, who's been dead. 'The quickest girl in the frying pan,' the priestesses who shoed her they were one with the knowledge and the passion... man, get rid of them. "

[talulad]

Thanks, Miranda.
How very interesting. I had to read that quote a few times and I'm still not quite sure I understand exactly what it is she's trying to say, but I kinda get it...

The thoughts that run through that woman's head... wow. I will have to listen to some of these songs again and listen a bit more closely.

[♣Miranda♣]

I got that quote from the website www.magdalene.org. Here are some other ones.

Lyric from the Tori song "Talula:"

"Mary M weaving on said what you want is in the blood of senators"
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From "T.O.R.I. - Articles: Curve" September, 1996 by Bebecca Alber

"Many scholars believe that Mary Magdalene was a high priestess who came from the cult of Isis," Amos explains. "She wasn't this 'anything for a fiver, honey.' She was a peer to Jesus." In her new song "Muhammed, My Friend," Amos is inspired by this idea when she sings, "It's time to tell the world/ We both know it was a girl back in Bethlehem."
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From "Tori, Tori, Tori!" at Time.com, MAY 11, 1998 VOL. 151 NO. 18 By Christopher John Farley

"At five I really believed Jesus and Mary [Magdalene] were in love, and there was this whole thing going on..."
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From Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, July 15, 1998

"Mary Magdalene is really someone who has made the church very uncomfortable," Amos said. "That is why you have two Marys in the Bible: onethat is very sexual, and one that is virtuous and spiritual, cut off from her sexuality.
"In doing so, they take away all her wisdom. So instead of people having to align with one or the other, the Marys need to become married -- joined together."
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From "New Album Showcases Painful Descent for Tori Amos" By KIRA L. BILLIK

So she began to read about Mary Magdalene; Amos calls her ``the blueprint for women which was never carried over and passed down.'' She sees Magdalene as representing woman as a passionate, compassionate being.
``Boys for Pele'' was recorded in a church in Ireland; that also ties in with the Magdalene theme.
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From "TORI TAKES A BLOODBATH" by CINDY MCGLYNN

"It was all about fire, claiming my fire," Tori continues to explain. "Claiming the female part. The feminine that's been so shamed and so `this is a correct feminine expression,' `this is a naughty feminine expression,' `this is a mother feminine expression.'
"And I went, well, where's the Magdalene in all this?
"I went to some medicine women. The wise crones. The ones that have seen many summers and where the lines on their face just become like jewels because you know that each line has wisdom. They said to me, `Look at the blueprints that have been passed down, particularly from the religions of the last 2,000 years.'
"Being brought up heavy Christian, I was going down that bloodline. I was going down to the blueprint that hadn't been passed down, which started to get me into things that are hidden, which was very much what the music was about. The hidden thoughts."
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From "THE FEMININE MUSIQUE," The Sun, January 21, 1996, ARTS section, by J.D. Considine

Getting to the core was not just a matter of diving deep into her own shattered emotions; serious research was involved. Because Amos wanted to understand what it would take to become a whole woman, she "went back to the bloodline of woman, to the Magdalene."
"I wanted to know why the blueprint of the Magdalene was not passed down," she says. "what was passed down was the whore that wiped Jesus'feet. We skipped the whole phase of the woman - having sexual desire, wisdom, passion. Being an equal to Jesus, in truth.
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From "Where the Girls Are," in _George_, by By Joy Press (transcribed online)

At first glance, Tori Amos seems a throwback. A hippie-dippy feminist selling New Age platitudes. She begins and ends this interview by talking about the two Marys- Magdalene and the Birgin (sic) Mother, of course-and no matter what question is asked, she eventually returns to the subject of Western religion and its devastation effect on women's sexuality.
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From "Choirgirl hotels, faeries, and a healthy dose of individuality," in _Iowa State Daily_, by Greg Jerrett

"....I think that the greatest thing that the Christians could do is say, 'We cut out sexuality, we made it a bad thing, and we divided the Marys.'
"We have to honor both of them," she added, "the Magdalene and the Mother Mary. The Mother Mary was a sexual being; she had children through sex. Mary Magdalene had great wisdom. She wasn't just the 'Whore of Babylon.'
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(unattributed Tori quote)

"When I was very little I got into big trouble for wondering if Jesus had a thing going with Mary Magdalene."
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From "The Hurt Inside," _The Sirens_ (web zine)

"That's why I sing "God, sometimes you just don't come through/ You need a woman to look after you." The God-force must be feminized, perceived more as a God-Goddess. Jesus, his mother, 'his church' all must be redefined. Especially a figure like Mary Magdalene, who I and so many Christian women were taught to despise, because she was a prostitute. Because of that we had great problems coming to terms with the prostitute in ourselves, which again, is something the Church teaches us to deny, and something my song, 'The Wrong Band' is about when I sing. 'Ginger is always sincere/But not to one man.'
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quote from Westword - August 27, September 2, 1998

"In my own faith system, I've tried to marry the Marys together so that the Mother Mary's sexual being isn't circumcised from her anymore and Mary Magdalene's wisdom isn't circumcised from her. I've restored that in my own faith system, and that's how I see them now - as a whole."
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From "Tori Amos Talks Back," by Ben Edmonds.

The shadow side of that was Mary Magdalene, who we've always been taught was a whore because that's the camp I was in. But why did I have to be divided from the two Marys? Shouldn't it be about the balance? It should be about a wholeness, but it's about division.

[talulad]

You rock my socks off! If only I could put as much effort into reporting and research for school as you did for that post

[♥Sean♥]

Miranda....

I happened to stumble upon this thread, and, WOW, how impressive!

I read "The DaVinci Code" a few months back, so I've been thinking quite a bit about the relationship between Mary Magdelene and Jesus. It's fascinating to read the thoughts of Tori in that area.

Damn, she amazes me with some of the things she sees....

Thanks for all your work!

[♣Miranda♣]

I am so smart. S-m-r-t.

[Julie]

I think the reason Tori mentions Tori so much in her music is because Tori learned a lot about Mary as she was growing up and she always felt that Mary was trapped so she has a lot to say about her.

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: Hey Jupiter - Tori Amos

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