Apollo's Frock

[padre]

Mary,
I was highly impressed by your analysis of “Apollo’s Frock.” You certainly show a perspicacious mind and a tenacity which holds you at the task until you find yourself satisfied with your research. I agree with everything you said but perhaps I may be able to add a thing or two, being of a mythological bend myself, if not a complete myth!
Young daughter Helen has made sure I listened to the CD before I began this lengthy extrication. It is indeed, a beautiful song, though I have to admit, so far as music is concerned I prefer the folk, or classical rather than the popular. Yet Tori seems to be clasping brilliantly both genres. Well done and thank you, darling Heley!

I find that Tori Amos is giving us here the dual nature of the twin gods, Apollo and his twin sister, Artemis (Diana in Latin). Both these two are mighty in their generosity as well as in how the mete out punishment. Both stood in front of the Greek army in Troy and shot their very capable arrows at the Greeks until... “they sent millions of greek heroes’ souls to Hades and their bodies left to the beaks of the birds of prey” (first couple of lines of the Iliad). The brilliant Apollo, beautiful “as the saddest rainstorm.”<br>
Apollo was the wisest being, being able to see everything going on upon the planet. He gives the planet its light, its life and its knowledge. The ancients believed that the whole year should be devoted to him, ie the head ruled, but for the three, three-day Dionysiac festivals, when humans “beheaded” themselves (by wine or mushrooms or other doodahs) and their darker sides (bowels, offals, heart, etc, ie desire) ruled. During these three festivals we had the theatres going full blast, with Aristophanes the king of bawdy comedy splitting the sides of all Athenians and the three (now extant) tragedians, Eurypides, Sophocles and Aeschylus making everyone cry tears of guilt!

So! Apollo was the wisest, the most capable, the most handsome, yet the most cruel. He was so jealous once of his sister living with... I forgot with whom but with a man, so he called her (Artemis) to have a shooting contest with him. He pointed at a dark object in the river and asked her to shoot. She shot and being an ace shooter like him, her arrow went right through the object, which, as it turned out, was the head of her man. No more love affairs for that girl. She remained “celibate!” and a protector to pregnant women... She was a huntress and is always depicted with four or so great hounds by her side. A Greek poet Sikelianos (19thC) wrote a very vivid, brilliant in all respects poems about her. I am sure an English translation should be available in the better libraries. If not and you wish to see it, let me know and I’ll translate it for you.
So, Apollo with horses (four brilliantly white stallions) and Artemis with her lean, mean and highly capable hounds. (She was the cause of Iphigeneia’s sacrifice... but that’s another loooooong story... you can see why as youngsters we never slept... the affliction, incidentally carries to present day!) The allusion to the “cubs” in Tori’s song might well be an allusion to these hounds or the fox cubs at the hunt. It is connected to the Serengeti National Park of Africa, of course, which is clamouring with wild -and I mean WILD!- animals.

The narrator wants to have nothing more to do with her partner who plays the role of the cruel, though beautiful Apollo. Apollo, as well, fell in love with a lovely woman called Daphne but, Daphne refused his advances (so did Cassandra but that’s another looooong story for you) and turned into a tree from which the laurel leaf comes. Careful of that little leaf! It has been proffered as a condiment for many dishes (fish in particular) but one can fatally overdose on it, particularly if not cooked for long enough -another example of the duality of things and a good reason why Socrates advocated “all things in good measure!”<br>
You’re right about Shekhina. She is the (mental)personification not only of god-on-earth but of the “Holy Spirit” as it progressed through into Christianity. So, we have the notion of Apollo being the “breath” the life-giving force, the spirit in us (see here Wilfred Owen’s “Futility”), his twin sister Artemis being the protector of pregnant women and childbirth being carried into the Judaeo-Christian mythology(theology/theogony by the believers) as Shekhina. There are other examples of course, in almost every other culture, examples which Jung called “collective mythology” (something which got Freud’s ire up!).

So, (lots of “so’s” in Lit Crit!) the narrator is fighting with her partner, much like the Greeks (clashing of swords) fought with the Trojans, where a line separates the two camps... The narrator will not become the partner’s Laurel wreath, a product of Daphne the beautiful woman, a wreath which he most probably would want to wear and parade with, a victory emblem for all to see.

It is the “Thus far and no further!” uttered by a strong woman, at least equally as strong as her partner! The war of Troy, as I said lasted ten years because both sides were mighty; and the cause utterly acrimonious., so much so that the whole city (Plato’s “Republic” is about “man”) was raised to the ground, all men slaughtered, baby Astyanax thrown to his gruesome death over a huge cliff and all the women were taken back to Greece as slaves.

A good parallel to this song is Sylvia Plath’s “The Sow” in conjunction with her husband’s (Sir Ted Hughes) “The Pig.” Though I do not see the same intense strands of suicidal proclivities in Tori’s Polo player... ooops, I mean “Apollo’s Frock!”<br>
This and much more can be said about this lovely song but I think I better not strain my welcome in this bright forum.

Oh, if anyone is worried about my liberties here, let me assure them, Helen is right above my head whenever I’m writing to you.
Cheers to you all!
Padre George

[lunadream]

I have been so anxious to get on the boards and talk about this song lately...

I've read on several boards others interps, ideas and hypothses, (and I have not seen Mary's post???) but so far I have not seen this song analyzed from an earth-centered perspective. Upon first listen, I was struck with the imagery of it. Immediately I felt that Tori's message was that of Mother Earth--of the continual "raping" of her resources and beauty for greed and profit. Tori has been quite vocal that the soul of America's land has been lost, that the American Indians had respected her and reverenced her as a spirit of her own being and that we no longer carry that tradition and all that results. For instance, "How can you think you've won when there can be no winners" speaks to me of the so-called "war" in Iraq and the fact that in a greater sense, nobody is a winner when the spoils are acquired at the expense of human life and her habitat.

Much of Tori's work, of late, has also been very politically motivated... (and, as a tangeant, I find it annyoing that fans still hope for BFP work...) Tori has much more of a world view these days, her firey focus is just as great and now targeted at our country's politics--both worldwide and within our own boundaries.

These images--of Antartica, trees, sad rainstorms, the Serengeti, cubs--are images of Mother Earth, Mother Nature. All of the natural world is associated with the Goddess, as her earthly expression. Obviously, we are dealing with the wrath of a goddess. But I am going to go against the grain here and say that Apollo pissed off somebody much bigger than Artemis. I think she is a thread of this song, but not much more. For Gaia is the Great Mother image of the Earth and would be the one most enraged if my theory is correct. Also, I am quite sure in mythology standards it would be rude of Artemis to refer to such superior goddesses as "friends"--Shekhina is Yahweh's consort and equal, and the Ninefold, I believe, refers to the Triple Goddess. I would think Gaia would be on level to refer to them this casually, but not Artemis. Also, the first person in this song alternates expressions of anger and warning with that of lament and sadness--this dual nature is also indicative of the crone aspect of the Great goddess where compassion and comfort are offered equally with the necessary consequence. It is also interesting to note that Apollo's divination and prophesying abilities only rivaled--but did no exceed--those of Gaia's.

Of course overall, I think this song is a lament to the loss of the feminine as an equal and valuable part of society and the world at large. Tori has talked much of the division of women within ourselves (the virgin vs. whore syndrome) and the results. Apollo I think has this division. He seems to have the character of a scoundrel. He has been rejected by women he was fond of more than once, and even had affairs with two young men. However perhaps what Apollo could not see is that his rejections were, as in Daphne's case, brought on by his own hand. After all, he had mocked Eros' archery and so was struck with an arrow that made him fall in love with someone who wouldn't have him as a consequence. It seems to me that Apollo put on quite a bravado in many cases where it just put the girl off! Apollo doesn't have much respect for the softer, feminine side, having been rejected and also rejecting it within himself. In an etherical way this creates an over abundance of yang energy--bad for women, for Earth, for everything associated with the yin or feminine energy .

Overall, I see this song as a battle call, and a siren's song. Imagine the scene...

Luna

[huginn]

padre said:

lots of “so’s” in Lit Crit!

So, padre now it’s finally my time for some lit crit i read your stuff a month ago, but the fact that not all of us has permanent PC wouldn’t be the only place where the middle class are unable to ”walk another man’s moccasins” would it? So it has been the coldest and rainiest summer I can remember but I don’t mind I had “Scarlet’s hidden tresuares” in the walkman to warm me, and I like the lonliness at sea or as in this case the woodlands, easier to think there, never been much for company, although I can talk looong story’s to in particularly if it’s about a girl made an unvisible victim in this country and she touched my heart, but at least she’s freed from the predators of this world now. I enjoyed to read your stuff although (naturally) I disagree. So what I’m gonna do here is to use your stuff to go from and then improvise like I always do ‘cause let’s face it, books are best as references to life not reversed. And I think I’m gonna experimente with relations as well after all that’s the theme of Tori’s upcoming record, and you know nothing really compeers to her anyway.

I personally think that light defines shadow, and I’ve never really been much for those shadow boys anyway, I mean if you cover the windows with black curtains then you will not really be able to see the shadows in the corners at all will you? Just fucking poses.
So I think that the lightbearer in this case (yeah not the morning “star” and it isn’t a star) anyway Apollo I’m afraid his only place in this song is to define shadow, ‘cause it’s a three character story obviously. And I don’t think the “shadow Boy” in this case is a gentleman I think he’s a piece of bull shit.
I also think that a lioness at Serengeti ready for hunt can be very very dangerous in particulary if her cub are drawn in. You know that remind me more of the Cherokee hunters and warriors than of a clumsy marching greek myth army. As you probably know that nation held great hunters before the intruder turned life to a Trail of Tears. And you know that nation also up to our days holds very strong women, and I’m not only talking about the line from Margaret Little to Tori I think of for instance Chief Wilma Mankiller (what a funny name!).
Of course the line is for the last time officially crossed. Now to return to the Greek myths for a while, I don’t find it surprising that poor Apollo was very very Jealous I mean is Artemis a shining goddess or what, And let’s face it Orion was a piece of shit I think the Cherokees used to let the nature take care of guys like him, Merope represents one of the seven universes Chööchökam in the beliefs of the Hopi people she’ is to be treated with respect, but in silly Greek myth she was not only victimized but also made the weakest of the seven stars just because of her crush for a mortal that’s ridiculous!
And now we all have to see Orion’s ugly face on the winter sky just because Artemis put him up there but there are brighter stars on the winter sky.
In Hopi beliefs they call the belt for hotomkam and during their Soyal ritual at mid winter mid night, they see it hanging down the sky rather than standing, so much for limp dicks.
Now to relations: Sylvia-Ted Hughes (no need to add SIR he didn’t really like the nobles anyway) I have read “Sow” by Sylvia not “The pig” by her ex-husband (‘cause he gave her the boot) but still I think that “Birthday letters” are a better choice when to study their relation from his bearing, so OK directed to “the other side” but still… I have some problems with Ted Hughes (and I’m not talking feminist stereotypes here) ‘cause I do not doubt that he loved her in his own way and he probably had a good heart but still…sometimes I feel that he wasn’t ready to invest what it takes to save the relation with a complicated very special woman like Sylvia, I mean a couple of unpredictable monster waves (or what the hell you call ‘em in English) what’s that to handle if you really love someone? And I mean a woman like her? Maybe he should have written her some really hot! Love poetry instead of that silly hot soap he made her when she had a fever and felt alone inside of her self, (I assume that you have read Fever) maybe that death held her hand in there because his love was to small to enter her nightmares and kind of hold her hand in there so instead of him she had death to hold her hand? ‘cause she was alone in there. Maybe I’m to romantic, maybe I’m a giver not a taker and maybe a love relation is more complicated than that, but I don’t see why? Plato yees there is always those pseudo-intellectuals that come dragging with Plato when they pretend to be clever, but I pass that, Tori is a better philosopher anyway and Plato is to fucking boring for my taste. But sure… it’s good to read what the “educated” power people read then you see just how faked the “power” is like Noam Chomsky say most workers are more clever than those college and university boys anyway. Da Vinci is more my taste he could hold a prism before it was invented a self taught man.
As for politics I think Tori’s concise direct analysis in Dutch OOR-02 of the two parts Afghanistan and Iraq beats Chomsky’s blabla by far.
So much for books but I think it’s better to lead the music through the heart and the subconcioussness and then further to the brain, when interpreting Tori’s phenomenal music otherwise you will never see just how BRIGHT she is, but that’s not my fucking problem.

Can’t say cheers I’m afraid you know the prices for numbing water in this country is ridiculous so I’ll just take a glass of water to my anchovy.

[huginn]

About the subconscious (damn hard to spell) bullshit… well I saw an interview with Tori on Swede TV in early –96, and when the interviewer said, “it’s hard to live” she answered something like this:
It’s a challenge… it’s almost like a mythical library that you have… but you can’t go there by train or plane drugs or anything else… you have to allow your self to go there with your senses and start to feel what you really know… not what you’ve been programmed and taught to know… but what you really know… and when you make that choice you cant stop it. (She used her sensual body language while walking her talk)

Well…I’m not sure if I know what the hell she meant…but I liked it…she can be so intuitive and clever sometimes, and yet so stupid sometimes too, like us all...but this related to the interpreting…(and the lyrics are life) I somehow really believe that you can connect to her music with your senses even if you don’t speak a word English,

You have to forgive me for my endless rambling post, but I was In pc free land so to say, and when I came back to this little shit town, Anita my sis, had turned her pc (that I vulture on) into a total fucking enigma of endless problems… so I have this flood going out of my head now… and her net-connection… well I can empty a bottle Stolichnaya (if you could buy it in this fucking country) before it has loaded a fucking web-site And my hockey team play like fucking sleepwalkers (as usual) hasn’t even scored the last three games…grrr.. makes me grumpy.
Tori are surely the only true winner that I wave my flag for.

Well… I have some navigation problems on this forum (may be the fucking connection) but this may be the place for this post, a truly loooooong version of a threefold Goddesses.


PISSED GODDESSES UNDER THE AUTUMN MOON
sorry if this looks like a fucking monologue I believe in two-way communication really… I’m a sweet boy honestly! only eat bad people…<br>I was thinking who would be my favourite goddess (except for Tori as always) ‘cause I’m not into gods.
So, they say that the coming October fullmoon is named “hunter’s moon” so I think that a threefold kind of “don’t mess with me” warrior goddesses would do it.
Pele because your own firepower beats it all – “and the hurling down the volcano crater” stuff wasn’t a bad idea at all, although you Can always use water instead, so the Norse sea goddess Ran is an option.
Artemis because her very capable sharpshooter hands are able to direct any arrow point blank against any Actaeon-old fucker lurking behind the tree’s like a peeping-Tom and surely whit a spell turning him into a stag getting his dick eaten by the doggies story here: www.pantheon.org/articles/a/actaeon.html
And this is a wonderful painting of the pissed goddess giving him the evil eye:
www.artchive.com/artchive/T/titian/death_actaeon.jpg.html
You may need to click and magnify it because Acteaeon is a small guy even as a stag, but Artemis in focus are truly a beautiful and shining goddess.
Also needed is Hecate the moon goddess, patroness of pathfinding (it’s good to find your own way) magic and supernatural shapes a true witch (I love Witches), and you know some people say that Artemis and Hecate are one and the same Goddess only different names.
These forces should really not be messed with but in order to balance it out “Towards all the four winds” as Edith Södergran wrote (great poet) I’d give you Freja (Freyja) the Norse goddess of love sex and fertility, her name means the ruler, and she was the most worshipped goddess here in the north. So she was a hot pussy but I’m not sure if she needs to melt into Athena ‘cause she was not just a “cunt” like the untrustworthy badass Norse-myth trickster Loki called her, no she had many other gifts as goddess. Most important and with a Hecate connection she was the patroness of sejd (seithr) that’s a kind of shamanism that unlike the Lapp people almost only women called völvor could access, almost ‘cause she was stupid enough to give this power to one of her lovers Od (probably Odin) and then according to the silly myth she cried tears of gold for him to come to her again – but that was probably just what he thought an arrogant ugly bastard as he was. And old guys like him aren’t any good as “lover men” either that’s also just arrogance personified. And I mean men wrote down the myths so they probably liked to think big thoughts about them selves and got it all wrong while doing so. And how come that except for Odin’s eye trade with Mimir sejd was one of the signs of his wisdom but the goddess that gave him this power was just a “cunt” Freja should never (as the myth says) have loaned Loki her “Falk hamn” (Falcon-harbor) that she used when transcending into a supernatural state, and she should never have trusted him her wing garment ‘cause another of her many gifts was that she could fly over great distances. Her necklace Brisingamen (brosingamene) symbolised her OWN sexuality and the name comes from an ancient word for fire. So ok according to the myth she slept with a few small guys before she obtained it, but that would hardly make them eternal Jesus, they’re still just dwarfs in every aspect, if they dare look into a mirror of souls, while Freja are a very powerful goddess in every way.
Another darker side of her is that she can be a goddess of war when needed.

Well the pantheon myth site: pantheon.org/ may not be all that great I can’t really measure it ‘cause like I said I don’t own a computer and I can’t rest my ass behind a desk all day, so my net-time has to come like a blixt från klar himmel (lightening from a clear sky) as we say in Swedish, but luckily for me the Swedish public librarys even in rural costal areas are so good that even an “arty boy” would turn grön av avund (green of envy) as we also say in Swedish.
Ok, the number of Goddesses mentioned (Tori and Athena included) exceeded my promised three, so it seems like I’ve just proved the stereotype about northern (Swedish) lads as non-talkers wrong. But I promise to be quiet as I leave the site now, but it would be fun if you used the thread for goddess chat because gods are so fucking boring to listen to (thank god no one need) so it makes you go into a comatose state.
Well have a good day…

[scottiieee]

Is there a way I can find Mary's analysis? I would love to see it.